You have a right to your own view on homosexuality, but it is not an aberrant behavior. It’s a natural behavior, and Gay people can still reproduce. Sex is only a small portion of what homosexuality is. If you think homosexuality is only about the sexual act then you’re being told wrong.

Why should Gay people stay in the privacy of their own “homos?”

Stop focusing so much on the sex part!

Gay people stay in the privacy of their “homos” just as much as heteros do.

Heteros have sex and do not reproduce, so what is your problem. Homo sapiens are an animal species, and many animal species do have same-sex relations. You bring up the biological part, not me. Therefore, it is not an “aberrant behavior” as you put it, those are old terms that have been disproved.

You can reject anything you wish, but you should not force your biblical views on the rest of us! …“being against nature”? Give me a break! The bible doesn’t speak very much about homosexuals as I see coming from the mouths of bible thumpers today.

The focus on Gay people by these bible thumpers is psychotic. The bible talks a lot more about the unkindness or in hospitality of people toward others, in fact most of the city’s allegedly burned down by god was because of the rudeness of people toward others.

The church has bigger problems that they should be focusing on like adultery, fornication, illicit messages from god that tell them to run people down with their car’s, lying, stealing from the church funds, and much more. Some of which I find to be very psychotic.

This guy must be another one of ‘gods’ prophets or something?
http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_7731/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=THZ8XW04

I fully support homosexuals right to practice homosexuality with other homosexuals in the privacy of their own homos. I reject any and all attempts to characterize homosexual activity as natural, neutral, or logically valid.

Being non-reproductive, it is biologically false and therefore it is an abberant behavior for non-asexual creatures such as homo sapiens to engage in.

Being against nature, a psychotic pathology is indicated by embracing it.

Sounds more like misconduct to me, and the bible is full of chastising misconduct in either same-sex relations as well as opposite-sex relations.

When I was a Christian, long ago, we didn’t believe in the new interpreted bibles. This is why I don’t trust these new age bibles. Not going to argue if they are legitimate or not, but if I was still a Christian, I would probably still follow that particular branch of the faith. I also understood the importance in comparing the older one with its original Greek versions. I have seen some new age bibles, but that was a long time ago, and I remember comparing them to the older versions.

Also, in general, some words don’t fit because when they were translated they would just put the “English” in ambiguous terms. Classical Greek and Aramaic words could have several terms but they would use one English word. There are several words for “love” in classical Greek, and each one means something slightly different in meaning, but we use the word love as a single meaning in English.

Romans 1 doesn’t end at verse 27, it continues to chastise others, and like I said one sin is not greater than any other, but the church only focuses on same-sex love.

As a former Christian, the bible didn’t condemn same-sex relations any more than it did for opposite-sex relations. In fact, some relations were highly regarded. Many, many relationships took place, not just in Leviticus or in Romans. Levitical law is Jewish law, and I am not Jewish, and I’m not a Christian, it’s okay with me if people want to think like that, but it should not be forced on the rest of us.

You can practice your “marriage” in your church the way you wish to, no one is denying you that. Civil law is not your religious law; it’s separate and belongs the greater society. You can be defensive in your own faith on how you handle that, but it should not be forced on the rest of us. Your quote on Adam and Even is a bond or joining, not a civil marriage for legal purposes. Those are stories the people adopted from the Sumerian myth stories to suit their own needs. The Christian bible doesn’t even mention Adams first partner because she was a Goddess, but the Old Testament turned her into a snake, for some reason they oneness people didn’t like the Goddess.

God did not invent marriage. The church never even adopted the practice until many centuries after Christ. Civil marriage laws are inherited old Pagan practices for the purpose of proving property rights and other civil legal matters. There doesn’t even appear to be any word for the institution of marriage in the Hebrew text. That is probably because it is a Pagan practice. The church started adopting Pagan practices in order to convert the people to Christianity, and they also adopted the practice of marriage. In the middle ages every one thought that the social institutions were Christian, even though they are largely Pagan origin. Christmas is Pagan origin, Easter is Pagan origin, and all the saints are of Pagan origin [Pagan god], but names are changed to represent saints.

If you want to point fingers, the bible also mentions a lot more about other “sins” or morals, not just same-sex love because same-sex love took place in several accounts of the bible. Most of the chastising is about misconduct, and the bible condemns misconduct on both sides, not just same-sex sexual relations. Several sexual encounters also took place in certain temples through Eunuchs, either manmade ones or the natural ones.

What “god” despised the most is the inhospitality of the people, their rudeness toward others. People continue to mention Sodom a Gomorra when referencing same-sex couples, yet Sodom and Gomorra was destroyed because of the people’s inhospitality, not same-sex sexual relations. “God” also destroyed many other cities because of inhospitality, the rudeness of the people toward others. In fact, he saved a prostitute in another city, and let everyone else die in that city. He saved her because she was kind and hospitable. Just like he saved Lots family for being kind. Leviticus also condemns the marrying of two sisters, yet who married two sisters? Didn’t Lott sleep with his own daughters? It also say’s to kill your children who curse you! Are we killing our children who curse us? What about adultery, divorce, or all those other abominations? [I believe people are focusing in the wrong direction]

Doesn’t the bible say one sin is NOT greater than any other? So, why are Christians ignoring everything else, and focusing on people who may or may not even be part of its faith?

My own faiths does not teach us what Christianity is doing to same-sex couples.

Some Church’s marry Same-Sex Couples, that’s their business; it’s called religious freedom. When some one goes to get a CIVIL MARRIAGE license they have their options to go to their particular faith, if their faith offers a ceremony, some do, some don’t. People also have an option to have a friend sign the agreement, or they can have a Justice of the Peace sign the marriage license. Heck, I can actually sign one, and I am authorized to in the State of California. Everyone doesn’t go to a “church”, Atheist’s don’t go to a “church” or “temple” or any other religious system out their because they don’t have to, it’s a Civil Marriage. A Church marriage is a totally different issue. If I were going to get married, I wouldn’t go to a Mormon Temple, or a Catholic Church to get married, why would I?

You know what this is really seriously turning me off!

Who cares if it is a Marriage or a UNION, to me they are one and the same. When a person gets married the have joined a Union of each other. The problem is the laws and the states or companies are not recognizing them. However, I have since changed my mind on that. I feel Same-Sex couples should have all the equal benefits of a Civil Marriage; lets throw out this bull of Civil Union stuff. That really bugs me that people think they are so superior to other people or faith systems.

As for the bigotry comment, I’m not totally sure what “god” has to do with it if you’re not a Christian, some people are Atheists, and I have respect for them to. The bigotry may be coming from both side, but lets face it the Mormons and other Christian’s brought this about, and that is what happens when people are being attacked. It’s a perfectly normal part of human nature and biology.

Every one gets angry, even Christian’s, so I don’t usually care to much when I see people pretending to be holier than though. I used to be a Christian, and I know a lot about it, and the people. The bigotry started with Prop 8, it’s a proposition that targets a group of people and claims they don’t have a right to marry because it’s gods gift to Christian’s, and that is BULL! Bigotry is when people think they are better than other’s, so they target them and start taking away things, making people second class citizens in their own country. I know people who were treated the same because of who they were, not to long ago, and that was also bigotry. What is happening now, all the debates and arguments are a product of Prop 8. The protesting didn’t start before Prop 8. The protesting started after Prop 8. Maybe you don’t’ know, but there are a lot of people who support Prop 8 saying a lot of bigoted things about same-sex couples. Same-sex couples didn’t start this problem Prop 8 started it. Protests and anger are only secondary products of Prop 8, so I wouldn’t totally blame the protesters or give lesions on bigotry. To many same-sex couples have experience bigotry, so people know what that is.

1) This is Romans 1:27, from the English Standard Version “and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.” The word homosexual is not used, but the act is graphically described by Paul. Go to Biblegateway.com and look up Romans chp 1 in any version you wish.

We do not live under Old Testament Law, but Paul is repeating the same pronouncments as Leviticus 20:13, which does not use “homosexual,” but is clearly talking about it when Moses says “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.”

The word homosexual is not in the Bible; but sexual sin is as old as time. Leviticus 18 lists every sexual sin commiteed in Cannan, and the Hebrews were warned not to go into the land can commit those same sins.

2)Here’s why I’m defensive of marriage; it is a holy and sacred institution started by God. The first marriage was in the Garden of Eden, and Jesus quotes Moses when he says “a man shall leave father and mother, cleave unto his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” Marriage is a religious ceremony and institution. I’m defensive of marriage because gay and lesbian couples want to be recognized as having the same thing my wife and I have, and they do not. If the several states would like to recognize same sex couples as having some type of civil union (meaning property rights, insurance, visitation in the hospital would not be limited) then I am actually okay with that. I favor giving this to gay and lesbian couples in hopes that it will slow down the demand for “marriage.” Gay and lesbian advocates are quite to criticize the religious community for their bigotry and prejudice, but they wish to be granted a religious service? They are at odds with Christians, but want what we were given by God. What’s that about?

Did I even say you couldn’t legislate “morality”? No! You brought that up. Though, yes I feel the government shouldn’t be in the business of telling people they can’t smoke drink, buy condoms or whom they can or can’t have sex with. All those are considered “moral” issues by the church, yet they do no one else any harm. I feel if some one is doing harm, like killing, or perhaps being a danger to some one else, then of course they should go to trial for the alleged crime, and be found guilty or not guilty. Legislating some one else’s love life is no business of the church or the government.

Gay love isn’t doing any one else any harm, and it is definitely not doing the party any harm.

Each religion has it’s own set of what “morality” is, some of course are ridiculous, and other’s make commons sense. To me killing isn’t a moral issue, it’s a crime, and you are doing other’s harm. Church morality is about wearing jewelry, or getting a tattoo, smoking, drinking, and all those other ridiculous religious laws dependent on your church affiliation. Those are morals related to the church beliefs where we have a standard of civil laws that dictate America’s society. We don’t need church giving dictating what our morals should be because many American’s belong to different religious groups that dictate their own morals on their followers. Those of us who are not of your faith should not be forced to follow your morals, and to me love is not immoral.

Some one else’s sex life or love life is no one else’s business.

If you start legislating some one else’s morality then where will it stop? Are you going to start with cigarettes, or alcohol, those are considered immoral by some Christian standards. Frankly, Same-sex marriage is no one else’s business except for the to who get the civil marriage license, and that is not immoral. It may be immoral in your book, but not in mine.

We can’t in a society continue to allow these religious fanatical groups dictating how we live.

What next banning TV because that is immoral?

Or as a former Christian, should we also ban “the book of Mormon” because that is immoral and sacrilegious in my former Christian faith?

52% is a slim majority, and the law protects the minority from a tyrannical majority. That’s not democracy! You’ll see, it’s already in the courts, and Prop 8 people are trying to be sneaky with California voters. Why the need to lie or be sneaky about Prop 8? Aside, from that 52% how many of them had been lied to about same-sex civil marriage? I’ve heard some crazy lies being pushed by the Prop 8 people.

First clean your own how because my morals are higher than yours! Though, this moral issue isn’t what this is about, right, because that isn’t what the Prop 8 people have been telling people have they?

If you’re personal life was attacked what would you do, sit and do nothing or take action? Many people just sit, but many also take action. The action creates change, the sitting does nothing, and so I admire the people that take action when they are being personally attacked. These are their lives. I’m not suggesting physical harm by any means.

I’m not against anything your saying in your last message. I don’t even vote on party lines, I never have. I was once a republican, but left it because it started to adopt a lot of religious views. After the military, I didn’t need the party anymore, I became a democrat, but tired of the two party systems I changed. I don’t vote along party lines at all, but I’m not sure why you even bring that up?

I agree, that people should vote in people they know about. No argument their, not sure why you bring that up either. People don’t vote for some one because they’re Christian, they vote for the person, but many people vote for some one because he/she is a Christian because they want that person to create changes for Christian people [I’m kind of thinking that this is what your talking about when you say vote and “democracy”?]. This shouldn’t happen because it creates a system where the overbearing majority will rule the minority and then creates a theocracy where Christian’s will rule every one else. This is America, we shouldn’t be ruled by any one religion, nor should our government make any laws favoring any one religion.

You bring up African-American’s, yet the majority are Christian, and are deeply involved in Christian organizations, many of which have strong ties to their religious faith.

My point is that the various religious groups are using their religious doctrine as law. That is okay with me, but it should be within their religious following, a person who is not a Christian shouldn’t be force to follow Christian laws under our greater civil laws. The two have to remain separate otherwise your favoring Christian laws over other faiths that do not agree with it, that is an overbearing majority. I used to be a Christian, so I know about the bible, especially in a fanatical point of view. I feel they can practice their faith, but it shouldn’t be forced on the greater society because of religious freedoms. Many other faith’s are not against same-sex marriages, in fact many have been married in their churches, but I’m not a Christian. I have a different belief system, and it doesn’t condemn same-sex marriages.

Even though the majority of African-American Christian’s supported Prop 8, as far as I know none of them had phone banks or gave edicts to their followers. Though, I have heard that some do preach on how they should vote. They’re supposed to remain neutral as a religious tax-free organization.

I understand it’s not just California. A person who has a position in the Mormon Church received a letter from his leaders telling them to do all they can to pass a law in another state.

Church leaders are not supposed to dictate to the people who or what to vote on, they are supposed to remain neutral, and many other churches follow that neutrality. It’s called “Separation of Church and State.” Jehovah witnesses remain neutral as an organization, but that doesn’t prevent them from voting. Buddhist’s remain neutral as an organization because of the Separation of Church and state, but that doesn’t prevent the people from voting either. My only issue is when the organization’s leaders at the top push edicts to their follower, that isn’t neutrality, and it should be investigated.

As for Same-sex Unions, and Opposite-sex Unions, they should be treated the same when taxing or any other benefits afforded when people get a Civil Marriage License.

Whether you call it penalties or a benefit it should remain equal. No one is asking for any special privileges.

The problem with California’s Same-Sex Unions, as I understand it, doesn’t provide the same equal benefits under the law as Opposite-sex marriages. Why? I do not know why it doesn’t matter to me if it has the word “marriage” or union because they are both the same, in meaning, but the civil law doesn’t provide equal benefits in many aspect of the law with a civil union, as I understand it.

People should have equal benefits, and equally taxed the same either way; if you call it a penalty or some one else calls it a benefit it should be the same. For some a marriage is a benefit in many ways because of benefits available for taxation or employee benefits, retirement benefits, and not even just that, it proves property rights and who their heir is.

Example: people who are in same-sex relationship’s can not file a joint tax form, but people who are married CAN file a joint tax form. Same as employee benefits and much more, it’s not the same and it should be treated equal under civil law.

It’s not about some religion, but people are making it about their religion, and it’s being pushed by religion! These are my observations!

http://www.sacbee.com/capitolandcalifornia/story/1342373.html

I’m opinionated, and I will reply to comments, but it is taking a lot of my time, so I will apologize in advance if I don’t reply to every comment. This isn’t my job, I just do it because I have opinions, and I’m not trying to “attack” any ones religious following. I may not agree with some issues, and that is what America is all about. Many of my points or comments are observations to get people to think about the inequality.

I don’t agree with Prop 8, I’ve always thought it was unconstitutional in the first place. To put a vote on a group of peoples lives that only want to be treated equally under our civil laws, not religious laws is wrong. It’s an overbearing majority subjugating a minority. It’s religious interference in our civil laws, and the government should make no law favoring any religion. It’s like that for a reason.

Also you are saying nothing about the many different groups that are not mormon nor catholic, some not even “Religious” groups like the majority of African-Americans that pored out their support for “anti-gay” Marrage legeslation.

Also I mean exaclty what I said about the Suprime courts, Both the US and of your state, each state. I don’t care if you live in CA, OK, FL, NY, OR, MN, or which state exactly, but whichever state you reside in, take charge with your votes and elect people that fit your best interists. Don’t just vote along party lines, as for many this becoimes confusing, but get to know your canadits as well as you can, and be an informed voter. That is the only way your one voice can be applied, and that is democracy.

Also, it is not everyone of any “religion” that is against “Gays” or the same-sex unions.

I for one voice my peosonal opinion at the polls with my vote, and don’t batt an eye at the thought or same rights for “Gay” couples as for “Strait.” In fact I would want same-sex couples that form any leagel union (marrige/Civil Union) to pay the same “Marrage Penitalie” when taxed.
What is your opinion on the taxation of strait Unions vs. Same-sex Unions?

-D