California win emboldens anti-gay religious groups
Coming to a State near you! Watch out everyone! Don’t believe their lies because a whole lot of Californian’s fell for it.
I keep hearing comments that Prop 8 was not pushed by religious groups, they keep saying what about these people or those over there. Prop 8 people even agree that it is the Mormon’s, Catholics, and Evangelical Christians. All use the same bible that allegedly justifies targeting gay people for persecution. Though Mormons also use “The Book of Mormon”, and a “prophet” who had found some inscription that only he was able to see miraculously wrote it. Why these religious faiths are grouping together to destroy America’s constitution is bewildering since many Evangelical Christian’s see The Book of Mormon as sacrilegious to the bible teachings. My own former faith taught us to beware of false prophets.
Why are they grouping together? I can only image that it’s for the purpose of voting in order to water down America’s constitution in their religious favor, though it’s still unconstitutional for an overbearing tyrannical majority to oppress a minority. Hopefully, our judicial system will continue to protect our constitutions, if not then this country is lost.
Don’t these people have anything better to do besides attacking other people?
They should focus on their own families, and clean their own houses. Don’t mess with our constitutions.
Proposition 8 is illegal, and unconstitutional! The prop 8 people fooled people into voting for it, and they are trying to be sneaky by pushing this thing through. They are supposed to take it through legislation and then the voting process, but they skipped the legislation part because they already knew that it would not pass legislation. California’s legislation had already fixed the law to clarify civil marriage, but it was vetoed twice by the governor because they though it was up to the courts to correct the discrimination. Though marriage went to the Supreme Court as a result of Mayor Newsom marrying 4000 people in San Francisco, that brought about the court case, and the California Supreme Court found that denying civil marriage to same-sex couples is unconstitutional. The religious fanatics just won’t stop making a mess of everything, they can’t stand it when they loose, so they keep wasting taxpayer dollars on the mess they have created.
They don’t understand that their religious laws are not our civil laws, and those they are separate, but they continue to push their religious dogma on the rest of us, and they don’t care what religion you belong to. They will do their best to exert Christian dogma on us all. Then come the inquisitions because they just will not stop.
California win emboldens anti-gay religious groups
Leaders of the successful Proposition 8 campaign say an unusual coalition of evangelical Christians, Mormons and Roman Catholics built a majority at the polls Nov. 4 by harnessing the organizational muscle of churches to a mainstream message about what school children might be taught about same-sex relationships if the ban failed.
Same-sex marriage bans also won in Arizona and Florida. But in putting together the California victory, the coalition overcame opposition from the state’s political establishment and assumptions about how voters in the famously tolerant state would respond to taking away the rights the state’s highest court granted this spring.
“Everyone told me it could not be done, people do not care about this enough, you will be overwhelmed and you will lose,” said Maggie Gallagher, executive director of the National Organization for Marriage, a New Jersey group that provided seed money early this year to qualify the measure for the ballot.Marriage Equality. Separate Church and State law. Civil law belongs to the people, and every one should be treated with respect and dignity. Repeal Prop 8!
モルモン教徒 の ファトゥアー
標的 合衆国 憲法
偏見はキリスト教の価値ではない。
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The Bible doesn’t justify persecution of anyone. The Bible commands us to spread the good news (gospel, Greek for good news) to the nations. Despite the “God hates fags” people, that statement simply isn’t true. However, many passages of scripture (read Romans 1) make it clear that God does not honor homosexual relations. It doesn’t allegedly say that, you can pick it up and read it. And prop 8 doesn’t persecute anyone for anything; it does however say that our government doesn’t have to recognize a sinful act as if it were acceptable. Every law on the book is someone’s morality, so how does the argument “you can’t legislate morality” even make sense? Murder is illegal in this county, and not because it’s in Exodus 20. It’s because collectivly Americans agree that murder should not be allowed. 52% of Californians voted for prop 8. If the people voted for it, then it’s passage is democracy in action. You are the one trying to force legislation down the throats of the majority.
Comment by Clark Bunch | November 16, 2008
@clark bunch, then why do so many, well, not all Christian’s, but many use a lot of bible laws to persecute people. Attacking gay people is persecution! What makes alleged Christian morality better than my morals or any one else’s for that matter. I’ve seen atheist with better morals than many Christian’s on how they treat people and live. I’ve seen other’s hold stead fast on no killing, but Christian’s legitimize killing, even though the bible says though shall not kill, but they then use other parts of the bible to justify their actions, so you can’t tell me that the bible doesn’t give justifications for those actions. One page can say kill and the next say love; you pick and choose, right. The word homosexual came about in the 19th century, so I find it very hard to believe that Roman’s is talking about homosexual acts. What bible translation are you using? What makes you the one to say that gay love is immoral? How is love even equated to your standard of “morality” compared to some one else’s standard?
Did I even say you couldn’t legislate “morality”? No! You brought that up. Though, yes I feel the government shouldn’t be in the business of telling people they can’t smoke drink, buy condoms or whom they can or can’t have sex with. All those are considered “moral” issues by the church, yet they do no one else any harm. I feel if some one is doing harm, like killing, or perhaps being a danger to some one else, then of course they should go to trial for the alleged crime, and be found guilty or not guilty. Legislating some one else’s love life is no business of the church or the government.
Gay love isn’t doing any one else any harm, and it is definitely not doing the party any harm.
Each religion has it’s own set of what “morality” is, some of course are ridiculous, and other’s make commons sense. To me killing isn’t a moral issue, it’s a crime, and you are doing other’s harm. Church morality is about wearing jewelry, or getting a tattoo, smoking, drinking, and all those other ridiculous religious laws dependent on your church affiliation. Those are morals related to the church beliefs where we have a standard of civil laws that dictate America’s society. We don’t need church giving dictating what our morals should be because many American’s belong to different religious groups that dictate their own morals on their followers. Those of us who are not of your faith should not be forced to follow your morals, and to me love is not immoral.
Some one else’s sex life or love life is no one else’s business.
If you start legislating some one else’s morality then where will it stop? Are you going to start with cigarettes, or alcohol, those are considered immoral by some Christian standards. Frankly, Same-sex marriage is no one else’s business except for the to who get the civil marriage license, and that is not immoral. It may be immoral in your book, but not in mine.
We can’t in a society continue to allow these religious fanatical groups dictating how we live.
What next banning TV because that is immoral?
Or as a former Christian, should we also ban “the book of Mormon” because that is immoral and sacrilegious in my former Christian faith?
52% is a slim majority, and the law protects the minority from a tyrannical majority. That’s not democracy! You’ll see, it’s already in the courts, and Prop 8 people are trying to be sneaky with California voters. Why the need to lie or be sneaky about Prop 8? Aside, from that 52% how many of them had been lied to about same-sex civil marriage? I’ve heard some crazy lies being pushed by the Prop 8 people.
First clean your own how because my morals are higher than yours! Though, this moral issue isn’t what this is about, right, because that isn’t what the Prop 8 people have been telling people have they?
Comment by gaytees | November 17, 2008
Prop 8 passed my a slim margin, and I was actually surprised. Gay marriage will soon be legalized in California, don’t sweat it. But in response to some of your questions:
1) This is Romans 1:27, from the English Standard Version “and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.” The word homosexual is not used, but the act is graphically described by Paul. Go to Biblegateway.com and look up Romans chp 1 in any version you wish.
We do not live under Old Testament Law, but Paul is repeating the same pronouncments as Leviticus 20:13, which does not use “homosexual,” but is clearly talking about it when Moses says “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.”
The word homosexual is not in the Bible; but sexual sin is as old as time. Leviticus 18 lists every sexual sin commiteed in Cannan, and the Hebrews were warned not to go into the land can commit those same sins.
2)Here’s why I’m defensive of marriage; it is a holy and sacred institution started by God. The first marriage was in the Garden of Eden, and Jesus quotes Moses when he says “a man shall leave father and mother, cleave unto his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” Marriage is a religious ceremony and institution. I’m defensive of marriage because gay and lesbian couples want to be recognized as having the same thing my wife and I have, and they do not. If the several states would like to recognize same sex couples as having some type of civil union (meaning property rights, insurance, visitation in the hospital would not be limited) then I am actually okay with that. I favor giving this to gay and lesbian couples in hopes that it will slow down the demand for “marriage.” Gay and lesbian advocates are quite to criticize the religious community for their bigotry and prejudice, but they wish to be granted a religious service? They are at odds with Christians, but want what we were given by God. What’s that about?
Comment by Clark Bunch | November 17, 2008
I’m aware of what the bible say’s. The bible is for Christian’s, and does not belong to the rest of us who do not practice it. It’s okay for Christian’s to chastise other Christian’s. How do you know some one else’s marriage is about sex with each other?
As a former Christian, the bible didn’t condemn same-sex relations any more than it did for opposite-sex relations. In fact, some relations were highly regarded. Many, many relationships took place, not just in Leviticus or in Romans. Levitical law is Jewish law, and I am not Jewish, and I’m not a Christian, it’s okay with me if people want to think like that, but it should not be forced on the rest of us.
You can practice your “marriage” in your church the way you wish to, no one is denying you that. Civil law is not your religious law; it’s separate and belongs the greater society. You can be defensive in your own faith on how you handle that, but it should not be forced on the rest of us. Your quote on Adam and Even is a bond or joining, not a civil marriage for legal purposes. Those are stories the people adopted from the Sumerian myth stories to suit their own needs. The Christian bible doesn’t even mention Adams first partner because she was a Goddess, but the Old Testament turned her into a snake, for some reason they oneness people didn’t like the Goddess.
God did not invent marriage. The church never even adopted the practice until many centuries after Christ. Civil marriage laws are inherited old Pagan practices for the purpose of proving property rights and other civil legal matters. There doesn’t even appear to be any word for the institution of marriage in the Hebrew text. That is probably because it is a Pagan practice. The church started adopting Pagan practices in order to convert the people to Christianity, and they also adopted the practice of marriage. In the middle ages every one thought that the social institutions were Christian, even though they are largely Pagan origin. Christmas is Pagan origin, Easter is Pagan origin, and all the saints are of Pagan origin [Pagan god], but names are changed to represent saints.
If you want to point fingers, the bible also mentions a lot more about other “sins” or morals, not just same-sex love because same-sex love took place in several accounts of the bible. Most of the chastising is about misconduct, and the bible condemns misconduct on both sides, not just same-sex sexual relations. Several sexual encounters also took place in certain temples through Eunuchs, either manmade ones or the natural ones.
What “god” despised the most is the inhospitality of the people, their rudeness toward others. People continue to mention Sodom a Gomorra when referencing same-sex couples, yet Sodom and Gomorra was destroyed because of the people’s inhospitality, not same-sex sexual relations. “God” also destroyed many other cities because of inhospitality, the rudeness of the people toward others. In fact, he saved a prostitute in another city, and let everyone else die in that city. He saved her because she was kind and hospitable. Just like he saved Lots family for being kind. Leviticus also condemns the marrying of two sisters, yet who married two sisters? Didn’t Lott sleep with his own daughters? It also say’s to kill your children who curse you! Are we killing our children who curse us? What about adultery, divorce, or all those other abominations? [I believe people are focusing in the wrong direction]
Doesn’t the bible say one sin is NOT greater than any other? So, why are Christians ignoring everything else, and focusing on people who may or may not even be part of its faith?
My own faiths does not teach us what Christianity is doing to same-sex couples.
Some Church’s marry Same-Sex Couples, that’s their business; it’s called religious freedom. When some one goes to get a CIVIL MARRIAGE license they have their options to go to their particular faith, if their faith offers a ceremony, some do, some don’t. People also have an option to have a friend sign the agreement, or they can have a Justice of the Peace sign the marriage license. Heck, I can actually sign one, and I am authorized to in the State of California. Everyone doesn’t go to a “church”, Atheist’s don’t go to a “church” or “temple” or any other religious system out their because they don’t have to, it’s a Civil Marriage. A Church marriage is a totally different issue. If I were going to get married, I wouldn’t go to a Mormon Temple, or a Catholic Church to get married, why would I?
You know what this is really seriously turning me off!
Who cares if it is a Marriage or a UNION, to me they are one and the same. When a person gets married the have joined a Union of each other. The problem is the laws and the states or companies are not recognizing them. However, I have since changed my mind on that. I feel Same-Sex couples should have all the equal benefits of a Civil Marriage; lets throw out this bull of Civil Union stuff. That really bugs me that people think they are so superior to other people or faith systems.
As for the bigotry comment, I’m not totally sure what “god” has to do with it if you’re not a Christian, some people are Atheists, and I have respect for them to. The bigotry may be coming from both side, but lets face it the Mormons and other Christian’s brought this about, and that is what happens when people are being attacked. It’s a perfectly normal part of human nature and biology.
Every one gets angry, even Christian’s, so I don’t usually care to much when I see people pretending to be holier than though. I used to be a Christian, and I know a lot about it, and the people. The bigotry started with Prop 8, it’s a proposition that targets a group of people and claims they don’t have a right to marry because it’s gods gift to Christian’s, and that is BULL! Bigotry is when people think they are better than other’s, so they target them and start taking away things, making people second class citizens in their own country. I know people who were treated the same because of who they were, not to long ago, and that was also bigotry. What is happening now, all the debates and arguments are a product of Prop 8. The protesting didn’t start before Prop 8. The protesting started after Prop 8. Maybe you don’t’ know, but there are a lot of people who support Prop 8 saying a lot of bigoted things about same-sex couples. Same-sex couples didn’t start this problem Prop 8 started it. Protests and anger are only secondary products of Prop 8, so I wouldn’t totally blame the protesters or give lesions on bigotry. To many same-sex couples have experience bigotry, so people know what that is.
Comment by gaytees | November 20, 2008
I started a new blog focused on this subject earlier this month, but I have comments here to, that I don’t want to loose. I didn’t know what to do, it’s taken on a life of it’s own, this blog is focused on “Gay” issues, but the marriage issue has taken on a new life. I changed the title to fit for now. I suppose they’re evolving, and I will see what directing they go….
Comment by gaytees | November 20, 2008
BTW, I looked up an older version of the bible translation on Romans 1:27, “And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. “
Sounds more like misconduct to me, and the bible is full of chastising misconduct in either same-sex relations as well as opposite-sex relations.
When I was a Christian, long ago, we didn’t believe in the new interpreted bibles. This is why I don’t trust these new age bibles. Not going to argue if they are legitimate or not, but if I was still a Christian, I would probably still follow that particular branch of the faith. I also understood the importance in comparing the older one with its original Greek versions. I have seen some new age bibles, but that was a long time ago, and I remember comparing them to the older versions.
Also, in general, some words don’t fit because when they were translated they would just put the “English” in ambiguous terms. Classical Greek and Aramaic words could have several terms but they would use one English word. There are several words for “love” in classical Greek, and each one means something slightly different in meaning, but we use the word love as a single meaning in English.
Romans 1 doesn’t end at verse 27, it continues to chastise others, and like I said one sin is not greater than any other, but the church only focuses on same-sex love.
Comment by gaytees | November 20, 2008